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Laitenburg Vicar

09-13-2006, 07:32 PM
AN HUMBLE PETITION

Unto Our Dread Sovereign Lord, the Most High and Most Mighty Prince,

ALEXANDER

By the Grace of God King of Hanover



The Laws of the Chamber have caused a dispute concerning petitions.

I request that a formal petition format be posted here in this chamber and that Law II changed to authorize the petition.

King Alexander I

09-13-2006, 07:57 PM
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Beloved Nation,

We receive your petition and find the cause just.

We add the suggest that all petitions should start their topic with "Petition :".

Does anyone else have input into this?

Your loving Sovereign,
Alexander R.
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Carson Smith

09-19-2006, 09:10 PM
Dread Sovereign Lord:

I am in disagreement with this proposal. As I have explained elsewhere, petitions are not written documents, nor is any document being presented to Your Majesty. This is the Presence Chamber, and when one has an audience, one ought to speak, not read a letter. I do not think any topic prefix is necessary, nor should there be any requirements for protocol in the Presence Chamber aside from beginning an address with the words "Dread Sovereign Lord."

Finally, I would like to suggest that we adopt a system of discipline here once proposed for Parliament: if the Lord Marshall, and the Lord Marshall only, finds the comments of any of Your Majesty's subjects and petitioners to be inappropriate, contemptuous, or disrespectful, he shall simply post the word "Order!" below it and may consult with you elsewhere as to the necessity and details of punishment. It should not become a subject of national controversy if one person steps out of line.

Respectfully,

Sir Carson

Prince Justin

09-20-2006, 01:16 AM
Dread Sovereign Lord,

I disagree with making a format for a petition. We should be free to add what we wish in the petition. I also disagree with Sir Carson's statment that petitions are speeches. I maintain that a petition is a document that we present to Your Majesty in this chamber.

With respect,

JUSTIN

The Marquess of Mountcastle

09-20-2006, 04:28 PM
Your Majesty (sic),
Gentlemen:

Let the rules speak for themselves:

Quote:Sovereign Majesty King Alexander I of Hanover and Defender of the Faith, by your command I pronounce this audience open.

Let all who have business before the Throne of Hanover approach with humility and abiding by these laws now set before you do present your petitions.

LAW I
This is the court of His Majesty King Alexander I, known as the Royal Court, and you shall address no one before him.

LAW II
In the Royal Court all your utterances addressing him shall properly begin with "Dread Sovereign Lord" before the content of your petition.

LAW III
In the Royal Court you shall observe all proper etiquette at all times by referring to his subjects properly per their station, ranks and honors.

LAW IV
In the Royal Court you shall observe all proper decorum at all times by refraining from any unsightly behavior or disruptive outbursts.

LAW V
In the Royal Court you shall not interject when His Majesty has called upon one of his subjects you shall require him to answer for himself before resuming discourse.

LAW VI
In the Royal Court you shall respect the commands of the Lord Great Chamberlain who shall keep order in this court by force of the Royal Guard as need may be.

LAW VII
In the Royal Court the King may amend, discard or expand these laws as his good pleasure moves him.

Having heard the laws of His Majesty's Royal Court let those who have honest business before the Throne of Hanover present their petitions. His Majesty shall receive them until such time as he wishes to close his court.

May I first draw everyone's attention to Law II:

Quote:LAW II
In the Royal Court all your utterances addressing him shall properly begin with "Dread Sovereign Lord" before the content of your petition.

I ask all gathered to notice that the salutation "Dread Sovereign Lord" applies only to petitions, themselves. Also notice the word "properly". It is not "necessarily", but "properly" indicating that to do otherwise would be merely improper, as wiping one's nose on one's sleeve would be, for example. This does not in any way suggest that to do otherwise is a punishable offense.

I also continue to insist that a petition is a document. The way in which the petition in question is worded leaves no room to wonder. Therefore, when addressing the monarch, the usual etiquette should apply, that is: conversationally one begins by addressing the king as "Your Majesty", and then as "Sir" thereafter.

Furthermore, as these petitions in some cases are tantamount to bills for legislation, they ought to be considered documents and not verbiage.

I hereby concede, at any rate, that I erred by not including the words "dread Sovereign Lord" in the preamble of my petition for an Ascalonian embassy forum yet maintain that I was correct to salute the king as "Your Majesty" in the course of the ongoing discussion springing from the petition.

I have somehing to say about the following laws of the chamber as well:

Quote:LAW V
In the Royal Court you shall not interject when His Majesty has called upon one of his subjects you shall require him to answer for himself before resuming discourse

Somebody was drunk when he wrote this one. I believe it means that when His Majesty asks a question of a particular person, no one else ought to respond before that person does.

Quote:LAW VI
In the Royal Court you shall respect the commands of the Lord Great Chamberlain who shall keep order in this court by force of the Royal Guard as need may be.

What Royal Guard? That's simply assinine. What would they do in a discussion forum in any case? Stab us with a hyphen?

Perhaps these rules do need reform.






King Alexander I

09-20-2006, 06:07 PM
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On the matter of a petition,

Quote:1. a formally drawn request, often bearing the names of a number of those making the request, that is addressed to a person or group of persons in authority or power, soliciting some favor, right, mercy, or other benefit: a petition for clemency; a petition for the repeal of an unfair law.
2. a request made for something desired, esp. a respectful or humble request, as to a superior or to one of those in authority; a supplication or prayer: a petition for aid; a petition to God for courage and strength.
3. something that is sought by request or entreaty: to receive one's full petition.
4. Law. an application for a court order or for some judicial action.
–verb (used with object)
5. to beg for or request (something).
6. to address a formal petition to (a sovereign, a legislative body, etc.): He received everything for which he had petitioned the king.
7. to ask by petition for (something).
–verb (used without object)
8. to present a petition.
9. to address or present a formal petition.
10. to request or solicit, as by a petition: to petition for redress of grievances.

We note that a document is not required, that is, a verbal request is also a petition.

We also note that the posts in this electronic Royal Presence Chamber are neither verbal nor traditional physical documents but are something all their own.

Upon deeper reflection perhaps the best course is simply to allow the petitioner to determine by his own values if his petition should be received in a formal structure, thus more closely emulating a written document, or in a less formal structure thus more closely emulating a verbal petition.

The purpose of the laws of the court are to see that decorum is maintained and that the the Royal Guard, in the represented by the Lord Marshal shall be the enforcer of the law. And that such force in Hanover is limited to a polite call for order, formal reprimands and finally removal of the offending posts if the behavior continues.

We find this dialog helpful and ask the people of Hanover to continue this discussion in light of what has already been determined.

Your loving Sovereign,
Alexander R.
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The Marquess of Mountcastle

09-20-2006, 09:09 PM
Your Majesty:

Allow me to suggest a possible solution:

1. All petitions praying for legislation should be considered documents and should follow the form which the former Duke of Montagu initiated.

2. In presenting the document to the King here in the Presence Chamber forum, a greeting should be made to your person first, followed by the posting of the petition document. For example:

Quote:Your Majesty:

I have the honour to submit for your Royal consideration the following petition:

AN HUMBLE PETITION

&c, &c, &c...dread Sovereign Lord...&c. &c, &c.

3. Common petitions not involving proposals for legislation may be offered simply as if to be considered verbal, beginning also with the salutation, "Your Majesty". For example:

Quote:Your Majesty:

I pray your Royal consideration of the following petition:

1. That Your Majesty re-open the Common Grounds forum, allowing a venue where intellectual discussion might once again flourish.

2. That Your Majesty will close forever the Hangover forum, so that the foolish and sinful frivolity which goes on in that den of iniquity shall never more blight our discussion board.

Humbly prostrate before Your Majesty's throne,

I have the honour to be,

Your Majesty's humble servant,

+Theobald

Bishop of the Diocese of St. John's in Laitenburgh

Or something along those lines.

Humbly prostrate before Your Majesty's throne,

I have the honour to be,

Your Majesty's humble servant,

James

Duke of Marchmain


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