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 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thomasgc>Thomas G C</A>

HM King Thomas I

Posts: 654

(9/20/03 10:27 pm)

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 Creating a Geography<hr size=1>
Dear Hanoverians, and members of the Society,

Welcome to this Society's first discussion, which is aimed at setting down the groundwork for a project to map Hanover and its surroundings, and create a detailed geography. If you don't want to read too much of my babbling, just skip to the bold title!

Hanover has always been very reluctant to participate in online mapping projects. This was due to two basic reasons, I believe. The first was that we were, for a long time, trying to avoid any kind of simulation, as much as possible. The second was that joining a map project would probably bring us into contact, and therefore force us to recognise, other micronations who we did not care much for.

Well, now we are embarking on a new era, and I believe that simulation will be a part of that new era. As long as we make sure to identify simulation as exactly what it is, i.e. not real, then we can conduct ourselves as a dignified and intelligent micronation while also indulging our nation-building and even world-building ideas. So, that it no longer a problem. As for the second problem, that is easily solved. This new project will be begun in Hanover, by Hanover, for Hanover. In the future, we may like to include other real micronations in our project, and perhaps even develop into a kind of "international simulation", but for now we only need one nation - us.

The First Step

The first step in creating a simulation is creating a world. Hanover's simulated land has to exist as part of a planet, and in order to do things properly, we should design a realistic planet before we go on to designing Hanover itself. That's the order nature (or God, if that's your thing) did it, so that's good enough for us.

I don't know how much you all know about geology and things like that, but my own knowledge extends just about as far as a GCSE Physics course can take you. I know the basics, but I have a feeling we'll all be stretching ourselves with this project.

Nevertheless, I am dedicated to creating a realistic world simulation for Hanover. This will mean using our knowledge of physics and geography to design the kind of planet that is significantly different from our Earth, but could have formed under the same environment. Here are some of the basic concepts of "planet creation":

- Ocean is the "basecoat" of a planet. Land is "painted" over ocean, rather than the other way around.

- Plate Tectonics: just beneath the surface, the Earth is split into several large areas, called plates (which usually correspond with continents and large oceans). These plates move around, and at their edges is where earthquakes and volcanoes happen. For more information see and take a look at the animation.

- Sea-Floor Spreading: under the oceans, there are some massive ridges, which are on the edges of plates (see above) where lava and stuff comes up from inside the Earth to form huge mountain ranges. This is how Iceland was formed - by lava mountains reaching above the water and cooling to form rock. This lava pushes the sea floor apart, and actually pushes the two plates away from each other. The Atlantic Ocean is getting wider at about the same speed as your fingernails grow. This is how the position of the continents comes about.

Using these principles, we have to come up with a realistic planet on which to put Hanover. Here are some basics I think we should stick to:

- Our planet should have oceans covering about 2/3rds, same as the Earth.

- We should be limited to less than six major landmasses.

- Islands should appear in realistic places - mid-ocean ridges (like Iceland), where continents have broken away from others (like the Carribean islands, where North-West Africa used to fit in!), or where huge valleys have been filled by the sea (like the Mediterranean, or Sea of Japan).

- We should have a major uninhabitable land mass at the North or South pole.
Read <a href="http://www.citizenonline.tk">CITIZEN - via our new Inscriptvs website

In ,

His Grace Thomas, Duke of Brunswick, Lord Chancellor, Minister of State, KCOA, OH</td></tr><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF><td nowrap width=20% valign=top align=left>
 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thomasgc>Thomas G C</A>

HM King Thomas I

Posts: 655

(9/20/03 10:35 pm)

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 Re: Creating a Geography<hr size=1>
To make it easy for you to tell me what you think our planet should be like, here's a checklist of features. Simply fill it in and post it below, and we can design our planet based on the results. Alternatively, of course, you can show us a drawing!

Continents: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7*?

Major Oceans: 1, 2*, 3, 4 or 5?

Major (land) Mountain Ranges: 1, 2, 3, 4*, or 5?

Main Hemisphere (the one with the most land): North* or South?

Uninhabitable Landmass: North or South*?

* as on the Earth
Read <a href="http://www.citizenonline.tk">CITIZEN - via our new Inscriptvs website

In ,

His Grace Thomas, Duke of Brunswick, Lord Chancellor, Minister of State, KCOA, OH</td></tr><tr bgcolor=#F5F5DC><td nowrap width=20% valign=top align=left>
 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=billbekkenhuis>Bill Bekkenhuis</A>

Minister for

Immigration

Posts: 241

(9/21/03 11:16 am)

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 Re: Creating a Geography<hr size=1>
The first step in creating a simulation is creating a world. Hanover's simulated land has to exist as part of a planet, and in order to do things properly, we should design a realistic planet before we go on to designing Hanover itself.

I'm pretty pro-simulation, but I kind of thought we'd be on earth :-)

I know the Kingdom of Morovia exists on earth (though its a bit vague as to where on earth it is) and it seems that once we move *off* earth we've switched genres to science fiction.

I'm open to having an "off-earth" simulation but I really think a case should be made for it.

A lot of things will be a WHOLE lot simpler for our REAL nation if we are a fictional state (like Grand Fenwick in The Mouse That Roared) on earth rather than a fictional state in some extra-solar system.

Regards,

Bill Bekkenhuis

bekkenhuis@fast.net
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 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thomasgc>Thomas G C</A>

HM King Thomas I

Posts: 658

(9/21/03 12:15 pm)

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 Re: Creating a Geography<hr size=1>
To be honest I never even considered the possibility that we might somehow create our fictional land on Earth. As far as I had been concerned, Morovia did not exist on any planet- it was just an island shaped like Ireland on an infinite sea. It had no organised simulated geography.

I think there are pros and cons for being on earth, and for being on a totally different, "simulated earth".

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>EARTH PROS

We can incorporate real nations and histories into our fictional history. This will mean that creating our history can incorportate study of real history, and will give us a very rich background to work with.

We don't need to design a whole planet - just use the existing one. And we know it'll be realistic!

We can more easily simulate interaction between Hanover and macronations. We could pretend we're members of the EU and UN, and discuss and respond to issues raised there. All that is at the risk of becoming like the NGS, though - not a micronation, but a simulation of an existing nation.

EARTH CONS

All Earth's land is already taken up! We'd have to oust an existing nation, or create some new, "simulated" land on Earth. You'd think that'd be easy, but we need to have the right kind of land. On a totally simulated planet, we could design the land so that we create an ideal spot for Hanover.

We'd have to fit our fictional history into that of the real world. That could be fun, but it is also restrictive.

We don't have the possibility of introducing other micronations to the map, and creating a micronational simulation world to mirror the macroworld.<hr></blockquote>Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of putting Hanover on the real map of the Earth, and simulating us as a macronation. I'm going to put it to a vote in a new thread here.
Read <a href="http://www.citizenonline.tk">CITIZEN - via our new Inscriptvs website

In <a href="http://pub75.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111">Hanover</a>,

His Grace Thomas, Duke of Brunswick, Lord Chancellor, Minister of State, KCOA, OH</td></tr><tr bgcolor=#F5F5DC><td nowrap width=20% valign=top align=left>
 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=pardek>pardek</A>

D.Dreesbach,

Citizen

Posts: 136

(9/22/03 5:49 pm)

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 Re: Creating a Geography<hr size=1>

Continents: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7*? 1

Major Oceans: 1, 2*, 3, 4 or 5? 1 surrounding the 1 continent

Major (land) Mountain Ranges: 1, 2, 3, 4*, or 5? 3

Main Hemisphere (the one with the most land): North* or South? south

Uninhabitable Landmass: North or South*? north

the southern area always closer to the sun
Daniel Dreesbach

 Kaiser of Interland Duke of neuHannover</td></tr><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF><td nowrap width=20% valign=top align=left>
 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=lordwilliams>Lord Williams</A>

HRH Prince Justin,

Viceroy of Athenoi

Posts: 103

(9/22/03 7:22 pm)

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 I vote for Earth<hr size=1>
I like the idea of keeping Our Hanoverian Map on the Planet. I don't particularly like "science fiction" I like the idea of being "in" the UN and so on. I think that this is the best plan. Stay on the planet.

+Justin

HRH the Duke of Guelph
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 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=billbekkenhuis>Bill Bekkenhuis</A>

Minister for

Immigration

Posts: 244

(9/23/03 9:14 am)

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 Re: Creating a Geography<hr size=1>
To be honest I never even considered the possibility that we might somehow create our fictional land on Earth. As far as I had been concerned, Morovia did not exist on any planet- it was just an island shaped like Ireland on an infinite sea. It had no organized simulated geography.

Whereas I never even considered the possibility that we might be OFF earth :-)

I have to admit, I was so flustered by the question (and its ramifications) that I didn't even get to vote.

As one who has been arguing for the joys of simulation vs. *real* statehood, I guess I kind of felt a bit taken back and being taken so completely at my word.

For if one accepts simulation, why should one stop at simulating a landed state on earth.

Why NOT another planet? Why shouldn't simulated states exist on a simulated planet?

So the vote went the way of earth and I suppose that's the way I would have voted.

But the discussion has led me to see that we will be dealing with 'earth' (that is, a simulated earth that contains Hanover, Morovia, etc.) rather than the 'real' earth (which contains no such entities).

But I guess we gain not having to create a planet out of whole cloth. And I'm not sure what we lose other than the ability to relate Hanover spatially with the nations of Micras.

And that's not much of a loss, because one (by and large) uses a computer to travel from nation to nation, not a ship or airplane.

And - to add a pejorative comment - it seems like a certain number of micronations merely use their spatial contiguity to squabble over simulated land and even, on occasion, to launch simulated armies at each other.

I say, 'yuck to that' :-)

Regards,

Bill Bekkenhuis

bekkenhuis@fast.net

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