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 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thomasgc>Thomas G C</A>

Duke of Brunswick

Posts: 625

(7/12/03 1:44 pm)

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 Things To Do<hr size=1>
1. Draw up procedures (and a form) for a national census, and if necessary also a Bill to be put to Parliament.

This should allow the government to confirm that we have everybody's real name and address, that we have a thorough register of other micronational interests, and that all our citizens are active enough to respond to a census. The bill passed by Parliament will need to give somebody the power to revoke citizenships on the basis of not answering the census.

2. Figure out exactly how we're going to run the next elections, and write it all down so we don't forget what to do.

The last elections were our first time, and they weren't too great. We must have an efficient systme before the next ones. Perhaps we could invite some representatives of political parties to help with this?

3. (low priority) Based on the census, create a national database with data on all our citizens - accessible only to the appropriate people, that can be easily updated and altered.

I have no idea how to do this efficiently, but I'm sure someone does. I recommend everyone check out Talossa's national database at talossa.net - it's my idol.

4. (lower priority) Design a Certificate of Citizenship to be printed and sent to all Hanoverian citizens (and immigrants as they are approved).

That will be another factor making us stand out from the rest, and I think it will help people bond more closely with Hanover as a part of the real life. Even if they put it away ashamedly in their attic. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START smilie

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In <a href="http://pub75.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111">Hanover,

His Grace Thomas, Duke of Brunswick, Lord Chancellor, Minister of State, KCOA, OH</td></tr><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF><td nowrap width=20% valign=top align=left>
 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=komorisan>komoriSan</A>

C.Braden, Citizen

Posts: 154

(7/14/03 4:55 am)

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 Re: Things To Do<hr size=1>
Duke of Brunswick,

Now that my appointment to the Royal Commission on Elections is official I shall jump right on these issues and any other issues regarding elections.

I shall post my question, along with my counsil for your review right beside it.

CENSUS:

Is the government of Hanover legally empowered to take a census? I found no reference to census in the constitution. I found no reference to a census in the acts of parliament, the floor, or Seven Parliament Hill. CBB: Either get this ruled legal by the court, or have parliament pass* it fast. For the remainder of this message I shall assume it is legal and does not violate any privacy laws or whatnot.

What information are you intending to gather? CBB: Name, email, physical mailing address should do it.

What is the penalty, if any, if a citizen does not respond? Can't vote? Does that violate their constitutional right to vote? I personally think having your citizenship revoked is too harsh. Citizens should have the right to ignore politics as well if they wish.

Can those responses be used against them in court? CBB: Please say no.

Can those responses be made public? CBB: Again, please say no.

Is a response to the various questions of "none of your business" acceptable? CBB: Nope, provided the answers cannot ne used against you nor made public.

Will any effort be made to validate the information? CBB: Beyond email, I don't see the point. Let's just trust our citizens and if they lie, they lie.

* "The bill passed by Parliament will need to give somebody the power to revoke citizenships on the basis of not answering the census." I could not find the bill this refers too, so this might answer all my questions right there.

ELECTION MECHANICS:

I shall present a comprehensive proposal by the end of 2003-JULY for review and feedback which should allow plenty of time for implementation.

NATIONAL DATABASE:

This is axiomatic from a census. Your concern here for privacy tells me that you think the responses should be assumed private and thus a measure of trust in the government must be upheld. My first questions are, who shall be allowed access to this database, and for what purposes?

CERTIFICATE OF CITIZENSHIP:

This seems out of my realm. I agree with the idea if for no other reason than because it is cool and I want one to hang proudly on my wall.

Regards,

Char-Lez Braden

Member Royal Commission on Elections
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 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thomasgc>Thomas G C</A>

Duke of Brunswick

Posts: 639

(7/14/03 4:04 pm)

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 Re: Things To Do<hr size=1>
CENSUS: What I meant was that we should recommend a bill to be passed by Parliament which will give us the power to conduct a census. I think that answers your questions about legality. As to privacy - I would say citiens should choose their own level of privacy, from 'public', through 'other citizens' to only being available to government agencies like the King, the Prime Minister, Ministry of State and any security forces.

The necessity of the census is twofold. Firstly it allows us to week out inactives who fail to answer the census. Secondly, it allows government to know exactly who its citizens are. Addresses are useful for sending out materials by snail-mail; IP addresses and ISPs may be needed for security checking reasons; other micronational interests are also something we need to know for security reasons.

As for using things in the census in court, I don't really see a situation where they would be used, but if that would arise then yes, I think any available information should be used in court.
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In <a href="http://pub75.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111">Hanover,

His Grace Thomas, Duke of Brunswick, Lord Chancellor, Minister of State, KCOA, OH</td></tr><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF><td nowrap width=20% valign=top align=left>
 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=komorisan>komoriSan</A>

C.Braden, Citizen

Posts: 168

(7/14/03 6:47 pm)

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 Re: Things To Do<hr size=1>
CENSUS:

Pass a bill, ok, excellent.

However I'm concerned with the "be active or go away" tone I have heard of late.

As for "other micronational interests are also something we need to know for security reasons" that could be accomplished via a "security clearance" process imposed only on those that seek sensitive positions.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>As for using things in the census in court, I don't really see a situation where they would be used, but if that would arise then yes, I think any available information should be used in court. <hr></blockquote>The problem with this is that it makes people possibly choose between revealing information that could be used against them, or lieing. I think the census data should be inadmissable and thus they have no reason to NOT answer it. Nor should it become part of the public record that is accessable by the general public. With strict fines and penalties for violating the trust of the citizens.

Char-Lez
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 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thomasgc>Thomas G C</A>

Duke of Brunswick

Posts: 640

(7/14/03 7:45 pm)

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 Re: Things To Do<hr size=1>
I agree - stripping voting rights is better than revoking citizenship. As long as it deals with the problem of inactive people coming back simply to vote for their mates.

I can't think of any information in the census that could be used against someone in court - can you?
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In <a href="http://pub75.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111">Hanover,

His Grace Thomas, Duke of Brunswick, Lord Chancellor, Minister of State, KCOA, OH</td></tr><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF><td nowrap width=20% valign=top align=left>
 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=komorisan>komoriSan</A>

C.Braden, Citizen

Posts: 170

(7/14/03 8:56 pm)

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 Re: Things To Do<hr size=1>
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I can't think of any information in the census that could be used against someone in court - can you? <hr></blockquote>

I always worry about some dark future so it's easier for my phyche to simply get the problems ruled out ahead of time. It's not the intended consequences I worry about, but the unintended ones.

Lemme see, if we record IP numbers and I subsequently use my computer to commit crimes in Hanover under an alias in such a ways that happens to also record IPs can you use my census IP number as evidence that I'm the bad boy?

I just don't want to give people a reason to NOT answer the census. In the US the census data cannot be used against you for this very reason. You could put "Killer for hire" on your census form and the government can't suddenly start investigating you.

Simply put, if Hanover has any sort of "right to privacy" then compelling someone to answer a census can be an invasion of said privacy. If Hanover has any sort of protection from testifying against yourself then the census can be viewed as exactly that. If we simply bestow legal immunity to the citizens then this problem goes away.

If you can't find any way the census data can be used against the citizens then there is no reason to withhold such protections.

Char-Lez Braden

Royal Commission of Elections
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 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=komorisan>komoriSan</A>

C.Braden, Citizen

Posts: 172

(7/15/03 1:15 am)

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 Re: Things To Do<hr size=1>
Article II: Section 8

"No person shall be compelled to incriminate himself."

Can the census be taken this way? In the US it can.
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 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thomasgc>Thomas G C</A>

Duke of Brunswick

Posts: 645

(7/15/03 4:43 pm)

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 Re: Things To Do<hr size=1>
Okay. Answers to the census cannot be used in court.
Read 

In <a href="http://pub75.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111">Hanover,

His Grace Thomas, Duke of Brunswick, Lord Chancellor, Minister of State, KCOA, OH</td></tr><tr bgcolor=#F5F5DC><td nowrap width=20% valign=top align=left>
 <A HREF=http://pub156.ezboard.com/bthekingdomofhanover62111.showUserPublicProfile?gid=komorisan>komoriSan</A>

C.Braden, Citizen

Deputy Minister of

Economic Development

Posts: 245

(8/13/03 12:48 pm)

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 Re: Things To Do<hr size=1>
Folks,

Where are we with the Census? It would help with making sure the elections are as complete as possible.

Regards,

Char-Lez Braden

Chairman Royal Commission for Elections
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