Conversation with parliamentlive at 09/21/2007 04:08:26 PM on ChrisDMcQueeny (aim)
(04:08:28 PM) Chris entered the room.
(04:09:14 PM) Dreesbach entered the room.
(04:09:18 PM) Alexander R. entered the room.
(04:09:25 PM) Vulstanius entered the room.
(04:10:55 PM) Chris: Good afternoon, everyone. At this point we need to decide whether to delay this session so that Mr. Smith can be present, or to move forward in his absence.
(04:11:15 PM) Dreesbach: What time is he expected?
(04:11:36 PM) Chris: He said that he could be here at four, but apparently something has changed.
(04:11:49 PM) Alexander R.: I see no point in the delay then, we have a quorum anyway.
(04:12:04 PM) Dreesbach: Is there any minor issues that can be dealt with?
(04:13:27 PM) Alexander R.: The agenda doesn't have anything minor on it.
(04:13:28 PM) Chris: Well... firstly, for this session to have any authority, we will need to suspend the rules temporarily -- otherwise our votes would be invalid unless we waited here for three days.
(04:13:50 PM) Dreesbach: I move that we suspend the rules temporarily
(04:13:52 PM) Chris: Also, is there any objection to me taking the chair, since the Speaker is absent?
(04:13:53 PM) Vulstanius: Indeed, that would be quite vexing
(04:14:03 PM) Vulstanius: Fine by me
(04:14:04 PM) Dreesbach: i do not object
(04:14:29 PM) Chris: Very well. The Rules of Order are suspended, and I am Acting Speaker.
(04:15:02 PM) Chris: Now, a few words about procedure.
(04:15:19 PM) Chris: For the purposes of order, I suggest that we use the symbol "->" at the end of a message to indicate that more is coming, and "**" to indicate that one is finished.
(04:15:32 PM) Chris: Also, if two people speak at the same time, I will select one of them to speak first. Everyone will get a chance to speak.
(04:16:18 PM) Chris: If everyone is ready, we will open with the parliamentary prayer.
(04:16:25 PM) Dreesbach: Ready**
(04:16:29 PM) Vulstanius: I think it would also help if everyone went to their IM options and selected the "allow all to see if you're typing" option, that way we can see if someone is typing
(04:16:33 PM) Alexander R.: Please proceed
(04:16:55 PM) Vulstanius: In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
(04:16:59 PM) Vulstanius: Let us pray.
(04:17:07 PM) Vulstanius: Most gracious God, we humbly beseech thee, as for this Kingdom in general, so especially for the High Court of Parliament, under our most religious and gracious King at this time assembled:
(04:17:15 PM) Vulstanius: That thou wouldest be pleased to direct and prosper all their consultations, to the advancement of thy glory, the good of thy Church, the safety, honour, and welfare of our Sovereign and his Dominions;
(04:17:23 PM) Vulstanius: that all things may be so ordered and settled by their endeavours, upon the best and surest foundations, that peace and happiness, truth and justice, religion and piety, may be established among us for all generations.
(04:17:35 PM) Vulstanius: These and all other necessaries, for them, for us, and thy whole Church, we humbly beg in the Name and Mediation of Jesus Christ, our most blessed Lord and Saviour. Amen.
(04:17:39 PM) Alexander R.: Amen
(04:17:42 PM) Chris: Amen
(04:17:43 PM) Dreesbach: amen
(04:18:15 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, we are gathered here to resolve on the two issues mentioned in His Majesty's Proclamation. ->
(04:19:17 PM) Chris: First, we will consider the matter of British influence and emulation in Hanover. ->
(04:20:23 PM) Unable to send message: The message is too large.
(04:20:41 PM) Chris: Does anyone wish to speak first?**
(04:22:03 PM) Dreesbach: I have a question. How would it affect the small portion that emulates the German portion and how does it affect the German named titles like Emden, Oldenburg and mine?**
(04:22:36 PM) Alexander R.: That is what we are deciding.
(04:23:06 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, I believe that there is a place for the German/Hanoverian influence in the Kingdom. Our resolutions should be sure to allow for that.
(04:23:09 PM) Chris: **
(04:23:31 PM) Vulstanius: We need to decide how much Nation in general is to be influenced by the English form**
(04:24:32 PM) Chris: Now, His Majesty and I have discussed this matter at some length, and I believe we have found a workable balance. ->
(04:25:07 PM) Dreesbach: I believe that should be a blending of the 2 if we are taking our name from the Hanoverian Kings of Britian since the dynasty were ruled both Britain and mainland Germany**
(04:25:25 PM) Dreesbach: since we took our name from them**
(04:25:45 PM) Vulstanius: The Prime Minister was not finished with his thought, notice the ->
(04:25:47 PM) Chris: I believe that Hanover should not go to the level of Ascalon in mimicing the UK. They already have us out-done in that respect. ->
(04:27:14 PM) Chris: My suggestion (and I think His Majesty's as well) is that, when developing Hanoverian culture and institutions, we should work within basic British principles like the rule of law, constitutional monarchy, etc. ->
(04:27:45 PM) Chris: However, what we decide should be what is logical and reasonable for Hanover, not what is identical to the current or former institutions of Great Britain. ->
(04:29:13 PM) Chris: We should then subsequently endeavour to add British-style titles, terminology, and ceremonies to it. Hanover should be uniquely Hanoverian, but with British touches and feel to it.**
(04:29:35 PM) Chris: And also, perhaps, German feel.**
(04:29:52 PM) Alexander R.: Hanover is for Hanoverians, not thr British, nor the Germans. We should keep our adopted heritage, but not feel compelled to duplicate them exactly.**
(04:30:35 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, I see that Mr. Smith is browsing the fora. Hopefully he will join us soon.**
(04:31:13 PM) Unable to send message: The message is too large.
(04:31:38 PM) Chris: Ah, it would seem not. Mr. Smith says that he is unable to attend, but looks forward to our conclusions.**
(04:31:52 PM) Alexander R.: Disappointing. **
(04:33:27 PM) Vulstanius: I agree with His Majesty in that we should not feel compelled to mimick those adopted heritages, but rather have our own, with of course additions from both, but primarily our own.**
(04:34:27 PM) Vulstanius: What we of course must decide is in what ways we are to incorporate those elements we wish to**
(04:35:58 PM) Alexander R.: Parliament for one.**
(04:36:08 PM) Vulstanius: Quite**
(04:36:17 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, are we agreed that Hanover should not seek only to model herself on one nation, be it Britain or Germany?
(04:36:26 PM) Chris: **
(04:36:28 PM) Vulstanius: Agreed**
(04:36:44 PM) Dreesbach: You mean like changing Parliament to Riechstag?**
(04:41:44 PM) Vulstanius: No**
(04:42:18 PM) Vulstanius: We're talking about the general influences in the Nation, not Parliament specifically**
(04:42:33 PM) Vulstanius: That is the next order of business I believe**
(04:44:07 PM) Chris: (Back)
(04:44:41 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, may I suggest that we resolve on this issue before moving on?
(04:45:13 PM) Vulstanius: Indeed**
(04:45:15 PM) Alexander R.: I believe that the issue is one of function and style. Specifically that we choose the functions that fit Hanoevrs needs and dress them in the style of the British as we always have.
(04:45:28 PM) Alexander R.: **
(04:45:51 PM) Alexander R.: Is this correct?**
(04:46:00 PM) Dreesbach: I move that Hanover develops its own institutions with respect to what it needs while drawing from Great Britian and Germany as needed.**
(04:46:58 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, we must vote on this motion. May all that are of that opinion say Content, to the contrary Not Content.
(04:47:13 PM) Dreesbach: Content**
(04:47:41 PM) Chris: Content.
(04:47:47 PM) Vulstanius: COntent
(04:48:08 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, the Contents are three, the Not Contents nil. The Contents have it.
(04:48:41 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, I beg to move that it be resolved as follows:
(04:48:42 PM) Chris: ->
(04:50:12 PM) Chris: The Kingdom of Hanover should not seek to model herself only on the culture or institutions of any one nation, whether it be the United Kingdom or Germany.
(04:50:14 PM) Chris: ->
(04:50:20 PM) Chris: Instead, Hanover should develop her society and institutions based upon what is logical and practical for the Kingdom, drawing on her founding principles.->
(04:50:28 PM) Chris: Furthermore, the Kingdom should seek to emulate the majesty and grace of British titles, institutions, and ceremonies, without copying them indiscriminately.**
(04:51:23 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, the Question is that it be so resolved. May all that are of that opinion say Content, to the contrary Not Content.
(04:51:35 PM) Vulstanius: Content
(04:51:39 PM) Chris: Content.
(04:51:56 PM) Dreesbach: abstain.
(04:52:26 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, the Contents are two, the Not Contents nil. The Contents have it.
(04:52:36 PM) Chris: On Question, it was so resolved.
(04:52:55 PM) Dreesbach: Might I ask what does the second portion mean
(04:53:56 PM) Dreesbach: I want to be sure I understand. Is it stating we will still produce our own styles?
(04:54:04 PM) Chris: Yes
(04:54:44 PM) Dreesbach: Ok. Does it matter if i am willing to change it to "content"
(04:55:11 PM) Chris: I will note that in the record.
(04:55:25 PM) Chris: Now, on to the next matter.
(04:55:28 PM) Vulstanius: Next issue?
(04:56:25 PM) Chris: Because HM Government now operates mostly independently of the Crown, it is my suggestion that the monarch's long-term role be in Parliament.
(04:57:02 PM) Dreesbach: as a full fledged member? i would be supportive of it.**
(04:57:15 PM) Chris: While the Government's business is mostly routine, that of Parliament is usually not. And His Majesty has always been a very valuable adviser on legislative business. ->
(04:57:57 PM) Chris: Therefore, I am suggesting that Hanover embrace the mediaeval model of Parliaments, in which they are a true discussion between the King and his subjects. ->
(04:58:48 PM) Dreesbach: brb
(05:00:04 PM) Chris: **
(05:01:07 PM) Alexander R.: It would be the place of the Crown to actively participate in the discussions, but not take place in any voting, correct?
(05:02:20 PM) Vulstanius: I honestly don't see much point in having the Crown involved in Parliament if the Crown cannot vote on matters, the Crown already can give input in other ways**
(05:02:44 PM) Alexander R.: Visibility to the rest of the world.**
(05:03:09 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, the Crown would of course continue to vote on matters. The Crown always votes, via the traditional procedure of Royal Assent.
(05:03:25 PM) Vulstanius: I see now**
(05:03:27 PM) Alexander R.: OF course that, I meant before then.
(05:03:38 PM) Dreesbach: back. I believe the King should have the right to vote.**
(05:03:53 PM) Vulstanius: He does, I completely forgot about the Royal Assent**
(05:04:04 PM) Alexander R.: The Monsignor has stated that the Crown has a power stronger than a single vote.
(05:04:40 PM) Vulstanius: I think my miter is on a little too tight...**
(05:05:11 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, I believe we can resolve upon this issue. I have written a resolution, as follows:
(05:05:24 PM) Chris: Whereas the Crown has always taken a great interest in the legislative business in the Kingdom, and has frequently offered invaluable advice, thereby preventing several crises:->
(05:05:32 PM) Chris: BE IT NOW RESOLVED That the King of Hanover should henceforth sit together with his subjects in the High Court of Parliament;->
(05:05:37 PM) Chris: PROVIDED ALWAYS That the King shall continue to exercise his vote as a seperate chamber of Parliament, via the traditional procedure of Royal Assent.**
(05:06:04 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, the Question is that it be so resolved. May all that are of that opinion say Content, to the contrary Not Content.
(05:06:10 PM) Vulstanius: Content.
(05:06:14 PM) Chris: Content.
(05:07:24 PM) Dreesbach: content
(05:07:51 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, the Contents are three, the Not Contents nil. The Contents have it.
(05:08:00 PM) Chris: On Question, it was so resolved.
(05:08:51 PM) Chris: My Lords and Gentlemen, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.
(05:08:52 PM) Alexander R.: Thank you all for making this a priority in your schedule.
(05:10:16 PM) Chris: Is there any objection to adjournment?
(05:10:20 PM) Dreesbach: no
(05:10:40 PM) Vulstanius: No
(05:11:15 PM) Chris: In that case, the House is now adjourned. His Grace will now conclude with a prayer.
(05:11:22 PM) Vulstanius: Let us pray.
(05:12:47 PM) Vulstanius: O Lord our God, Creator of all thing, Thou who art merciful and benevolent, do thou the same Lord have mercy upon us and upon our works this day,
(05:12:51 PM) Vulstanius: and protect us in the coming night, that we may continually sing thy praises, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
(05:13:28 PM) Vulstanius: May God have compassion upon us and bless us, may He make the Light of His Countenance shine upon us and have mercy upon us. Amen.
(05:13:30 PM) Alexander R.: Amen
(05:13:31 PM) Dreesbach: Amen
(05:13:33 PM) Chris: Amen
(05:13:55 PM) Alexander R.: Monsignor, will you post the transcript?
(05:13:57 PM) Chris: Thank you, Sire, and My Lords, for attending.
(05:14:06 PM) Chris: I shall do so forthwith.
(05:14:16 PM) Chris: I have already posted notice of the resolutions.
(05:14:25 PM) Alexander R.: Thank you. I feel like we made some good progress here today.
(05:15:57 PM) Alexander R. left the room.